Interview with Tan Kok Seng
A short while back, our editorial assistant and Facebook virtuoso, Dan Koh, managed to snag an interview with the down-to-earth author of the (pun unintended) groundbreaking memoirs Man of Malaysia, and Son of Singapore.
Let’s see what he has to say.
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Background: How did Son of Singapore and Man of Malaysia come about?
DK: If I can just ask you, the background of these books, can you sort of explain how Son of Singapore and Man of Malaysia came about? How you started writing.
TKS: That was in the 70s, I followed my boss on a trip. At that time—Hippie period. All the youngsters looking odd, going barefoot and hanging the shoes on their shoulders. I thought, that time, my children grow up they will be no good, so when I came back, I thinking of writing a memoir to keep for my children only. After I am done with the first book, Son of Singapore, my boss, at that time, said: “What are you doing? All the time, you disappeared!” I said: “No, at the moment I’m trying to write a memoir for my kid, my children, my own book: The Son of Singapore.” After my trip come back, I was worried about my children—our next generation. Have that Western cult of long hair, dirty hair, walking around not wearing shoes. I thought all the time in Singapore see the Europeans wearing ties, so nice, all dressed up. Why should in …like that?
DK: This was the Hippies ah?
TKS: Yeah the Hippie period, very early 70s. So I was shocked! That’s why I started writing the first book. I read the book to Austin Coates. After a few nights read for him, he said: “I think it is far too good to keep for your kid.” I said: “I have very little education, how can I write other thing other than Chinese? My memoirs to keep I read, and for my children.” He said why don’t you finish it, I try to help you. You read from your Chinese manuscript, then I help you write in down in English. Then it will be published in English for the public to read. “It is far too good, don’t keep for yourself!” So that is the first book came out that way.
DK: When you wrote it, and Austin got involved, did you already imagine that it was going to be a trilogy?
TKS: No! No, no. The first book came out and the interesting thing is the first book was not by Hainanmen, but by one of the local publishers—Andrew Lee. He was working for somebody, starting a new publishing company called I think it was called Eastern publishing company. So, when the book came out, he said he wanted to print it. But the problem is he sells like in the fish market. (Laughs) When the mood is good, he rise up the price. I say: “Cannot! You cannot sell that way!” The book start at 3 dollar fifty, you go up to 4 dollar and 5 dollar fifty. I said: “It’s not the way!” I say need to fix how much you going to profit and going to advertise, so be done that way. But he said: “Oh no no no no…this is my way of doing.” Then, I got so angry…I said Withdraw! After I don’t know how long, I think after a few months the book came out, I was so angry. Austin helped me find a solicitor to get back the rights. So, we buy the whole book back. How much you pay for the printing, how much you think... So I buy back. I buy back, and Hainanmen interested in the book. He said: “Can he have it?” That is the way la.
DK: So it was only after Son of Singapore was published that you started writing Man of Malaysia?
TKS: Yes, that’s right, that’s right. Because a lot of readers said: “Mr Tan, where is the sequel? I want to know, to continue!” I said, I tell myself, how can it going to be continue? Forced me to write the second.
DK: What was the translation process like? Were there special efforts made to maintain the Mandarin and/or Teochew flavour of the original writing?
- Edwin Thumboo: "Tan Kok Seng's English is self taught. Its chief virtue is that it conveys the roots of his feelings. In his trilogy the English has been tidied up but still reflects the flavour of his personality. The point I want to make is that we occasionally detect behind his English the strong presence of his vernacular, Teochew, and it is this that contributes distinctively to his style, for instance."
- "That little boys have ears but no mouth is a literal translation from the Teochew. What Kok Seng has done - and this he does fairly consistently - is domesticate the Teochew adage in English, confident that the literal carries its own force, allowing the reader to work out its implications rapidly."
TKS: Translation starting is Austin had a big piano, so on top of the piano, we stand facing each other, he said: “You read, I will write.” So I read from my Chinese script, and he will (write by hand). Afterwards, he’d let me know all the words that he substitutes. If sometimes the word is too deep or too difficult, I said: “Can we change?” So, we agreed to change the word. It was quite a unique sort-of together.
DK: Why did the two of you decide to do it that way? He could have just…He could read Mandarin right?
TKS: No, No! He cannot!
DK: So you would actually translate it out?
TKS: Yes, yes! I read from the Chinese Manuscript in English, then he will take down. If I said the words too difficult or not quite in the grammar way, he would say change to that so we will agree to that. It was not easy, each night we took about one to one and a half hour.
DK: How long did the whole process that? The Son of Singapore?
TKS: Oh, the Son of Singapore took longer. Because we didn’t have a system. I think about equally of my writing, I think took about 6 to 8 months.
DK: Oh…Okay. So, when you were translating it, you wanted to keep it simple la.
TKS: Yes. That’s right, that’s right, as simple as possible. I thought anyone can read from Primary One. I myself only Primary Six so cannot be go beyond that.
DK: When Son of Singapore became such a success. Were you surprised?
TKS: I was so surprised! (Laughs)
DK: Over 25 000 sold, Son of Singapore became a bestseller, went into the MOE recommended textbook list, and was translated into multiple languages.
TKS: Translate into Singlish, into Japanese. The German tried to, but not successful.
DK: Were you surprised?
TKS: I was surprised, but never know, I think so! So simple sort of way you know. A lot of people say that it is quite different. It’s rather like a picture, it is so simple, but when you look at it, you understand. They explain to me that way, I don’t know.
DK: Which achievement were you happiest about? With its success. Selling a lot of book, become textbook list or translations
TKS: I think translation and also supplementary reading also quite good. I mean, people try to understand what is that time, I brought up in where and grow up in where. For a Singaporean, getting to school is quite happy, quite a joy. (Laughs) I am not a writer; I always said: “I can hold a broom, but not a brush.” (Laughs)
DK: So you don’t consider yourself a writer?
TKS: No!
DK: Why?
TKS: No, because this is somebody help me and also I know I’m not up to the standard in English to face the public. Because I’m not that sort of thick skin. I know my English is broken English, I pick up from the market. My school, I explained, in the school I never learned English. The English I learned is when I came to work with Austin, he got a lot of friends around and take him around and I learn from that.
City VS. Countryside: do you miss this division today?
- One of favourite passages: first time visit to the city, noticing "No trees", "Buildings standing high up" and "Cars rushing about" – "It was so unreal that it was like a dream"
- "the farm...has always been my place of security")
- moving to HDB flat in MOM: "One could well say that this was quite a helpful government for poor people – for all those lucky enough to be a Singaporean"
DK: You know one of my favourite passages in Sons of Singapore was you and your mother went to the city to make the IC. I like your descriptions of the tall buildings and no trees. Really showed me how separate the city and the countryside were back then. I also like how you described your family farm, how it seemed like a form of sanctuary.
TKS: (Laughs)
DK: When I was reading and you moved into the HDB, and you were so thankful, I was wondering if you missed the farm and the countryside.
TKS: I never thought about that, very interesting, I never thought about that. You see, when I moved out of the farm and went to the orchard road to work. I said I scared to move out. Somehow I moved to KL and back to Singapore. I got a Housing Board flat. I won’t miss the farm. Because you move forward, thinking that you were one step towards the modern world. My parents lived in the Qing dynasty, I said. The children obey the parents this and that. That’s why I got married. If I got into the Housing Board estate, I thinking I got into one more of the modern way, my parents Qing Dynasty. That’s why I don’t miss the farm.
DK: So, you don’t miss the old ways of life?
TKS: No, not much. Because you need to, how to say, need to move forward. If you think you miss the farm, you can’t move forward. Today, communication so good. If I never try to heads out, bit by bit, I will lag behind. Today, I still learning because I try to catch up with modern Singapore.
All the places you describe in Son of Singapore: "Red Hairs' home places": Gillman Barracks, Bukit Timah, Goodwood Park – have you visited them since?
TKS: Oh yes, all the places changed to something else. It has become a history. So, you need to move forward, cannot say it is a pity. Must move forward. My thinking is that is the past, that is the history, I must move forward. If not, I will lag behind.
DK: Did you ever think you want to bring them back Kampong? But it is all so different now.
TKS: No, no. That time farm not demolished, I brought my to kids to the farm. I show how to cut the coconuts…All that I physically done that for them to see, but mentally, I didn’t want them to be so involved with that sort of life.
DK: My last question. How come you stop writing? In 1985, you said you have stopped writing. In 1980 it was reported that you were working on a sequel to the Three Sisters of Sze, and in 1982 that you'd like to try writing a children's story.
TKS: No, not really give up! I always got the idea for either painting or writing to be continue. But problem is, I am how to say, a humble person. I work so hard to bring my two kids to the university. At that time, money is more important than art or what. At the time. Now, it doesn’t matter. They are all graduates, and they look after themselves. But at that time, I give up because I cannot continue; my mind not there. I cannot concentrate on drawing, painting or writing.
DK: Do you think you made a huge sacrifice?
TKS: Yeah. Because, at that time if I had not done that way, if I continue doing that, I cannot earn enough money for my two kids, I feel regret for myself.
DK: You felt bad that you stopped writing and stopped painting.
TKS: (Laughs) What to do? It was one thing or another at that time. That’s why I explain to you: If I can, if I have time, I would go back to my writing.
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Both Son of Singapore and Man of Malaysia as well as Three Sisters of Sze are available on the Epigram Books web store, and are also available in all good bookstores across Singapore.
Special thanks to Fung Yun Shan and Dustin Wong.